Friday, May 9, 2008

My response to Anonymous

Just recently one of my posts received the following comment from "Anonymous" - I thought I'd post my response.

"is your "1.5 million + >8" really supposed to mean that you equate the people killed on march 1 with genocide victims?
I mean, does anyone seriously equate these two events? LTP may be crazy for pushing people to hate so much and arm themselves looking for a fight, but I don't understand the connection to a genocide." May 9, 2008 12:53 PM

Dear Anonymous,

Your question brings several points to mind.

First, my intention in listing them together is not to equate them, but to point out their similarities. Starting with the most basic, both are incidents where Armenians were killed. Moving on, both are incidents where Armenians were killed by those more powerful than they. Continuing, one might argue that both sets of victims were innocent (though it seems you wouldn’t quite agree). Continuing, in both cases, those who committed the killings did so to maintain their own power and their own regimes, and to maintain, politically and economically, the status quo. The actual day of April 24, the day chosen to commemorate the Armenian Genocide, as I am sure you know, is the day that Armenian intellectuals, journalists and other thinkers, those with independent ideas, were arrested, deported and killed. Similarly, those interrogated and arrested in the events leading up to and especially after March 1, and those protesting, including those killed, were standing up for their principles, which necessitated change from the status quo, and many of them are themselves intellectuals and journalists.

The second interesting point is why they are different, because, as you say, they are not equal. Obviously, 1,500,000 is a much larger number than 8, or 10, or even 100. Of course, the sheer number is important, but that is not the only factor. We commemorate the victims of 1915, and in doing so we assimilate the commemoration of the Armenian victims of the end of the 19th century, but we do not have a separate date – we focus on the larger number of 1915-1918, which is understandable. Does this mean the victims of the 1890’s are of lesser value? Obviously not. Would we mourn the fallen soldiers of the war any more or less if there were more or fewer of them. Obviously not. It is who they were, what they believed and fought for, and how they died which we commemorate and mourn.

Now, a small sidetrack. We could debate for hours about whether individuals were armed during the protests in Yerevan. I would argue that they were peaceful demonstrations, and you might argue that weapons were used by some of the demonstrators, and the police were within their rights to open fire either because of massive unrest, or the threat of violence, or something else. I think this is the bottom line – unless you are willing to argue that there were protesters preparing to open fire on the police without any provocation whatsoever, then there is an element of self-defense in a demonstrator using some kind of weapon or tool (I’m not saying they did – this is hypothetical). And if you were to agree to that, and still argued that police force were justified (in the case of self-defensive tactics by the protesters), well, Anonymous, that is like saying the Ottomans were justified in killing the people of the villages of Marash, Zeytun, and others who raised up arms against their oppressors.

This brings us to the next big point. The Genocide was committed by Turks, whom we are all trained to hate and despise (another vortex I would rather not get into). March 1st was committed by Armenians. So obviously, the Turks being Turks, the Genocide apparently cannot even be listed within the sentence (or fragment, as it were) as the >8 killed during March 1-2, which you may be thinking, was the sad, unfortunate, result of some internal political strife. I, like almost all Armenians, have a cultural, even familial, memory of the Genocide which has been passed on to me by my family and cultural history. We all carry a tragic memory of a time which we did not live through, we mourn for the lives of our ancestors, our people. And it sits heavily, always, not just on April 24th. The murder of Armenians, on Armenian soil, by other Armenians, however, resonates at a different frequency, a different timbre. Stories and pictures, the reality of the Genocide, make me angry and mournful. Knowing that a regime composed of Armenians directly caused the death of other Armenians is sad, and infuriating, but even more so, it so internally devastating, that, to put it in the vernacular, it makes me want to vomit.

9 comments:

Avedis said...

Don't you see, Tzitzernak, what is the matter in reality? The Genocide is a "sacred" thing, it is worshipped and nourished, it is caressed and embraced, in short, it is loved. And the people of Armenia are not subjected to any of these feelings. So, by "equating", you arose jealousy. And, they are not equal too. As you noted justly, one is committed by Turks, the other--by Armenians. Which one is worse? The question, of course, is a rhetorical one.
One may assume, any killings of a little short of 1,5 million people is allowed, because some people have other interests or read wrong papers.

Anonymous said...

don't even know where to begin. i fail to find any rationality or logic in your justification/explanation of the subtitle in your site (which as an armenian i find offensive).

clashes between police and demonstrators (leading to death) happens all the time (sadly). nowhere have i ever heard it refered to as genocide. if this is the case, we have a genocide in the US every few years (waco, texas, LA riots, philadelphia drug-den helicopter gunship attack) which were much more bloody than the coup attempt suppressed in yerevan in march.

it is of course sad that demonstrators attacked police and that police fought back, but it was sadly predictable given all the hate-rhetoric built up by the radicals.

hopefully and thankfully now, people have woken up and realize that this is no direction for chance. hatred breeds evil, and not much good can come of it.

mayranoush said...

Anonymous, how would you respond to those people who with regards to Hrant Dink's murder claim that it is '1.5 million + 1'. Would you also say to them, as you have to Tzitzernak, that that is offensive and wrong?

Or, is every murder committed by a Turk against an Armenian part of the genocide?

Anonymous said...

hrant dink was killed because he was an armenian. he was killed because of the same fervor and hate that has existed in Turkey for centuries that has not permitted an independent armenian voice to be heard. he was killed because he talked about the past.

those killed on march 1 did so for a host of other reasons. levon ter petrossian was primarily responsible for these deaths as he drove his followers to illegal marches, encouraging troops to defect against the state, and finally to dig in, arm, and hurl rocks and attack troops. clashes were inevitable, and we are lucky that so few police and demonstrators died. i look forward to trials so that the guilty are punished for march 1 events.

the analogy to dink is flawed. same events would happen in any democracy. how many more armenian deaths [all those who unnecessarily froze in the early 90s] does levon have to have on his bloody hands?

Harut said...

Hrant Dink, by the way, was not killed because he was an Armenian. It is your assumption, since he was killed by a Turk and, therefore, your cliched mind is satisfied. For the same reason Hrant was killed, he was going to be assassinated by a group of Armenians who also support the killings of innocent peaceful demonstrators in Armenia (the support was expressed in numerous statements by them). Now, do not tell me that what I say is just a rumor: what you say is not just a rumor but exactly the opposite of the reality and truth, just each word of yours. Answering to each of them would mean to take them seriously. If you were really interested in what was and still is going on in Armenia, you would have a little open mind, would read and listen and, more importantly, think.

mayranoush said...

Anonymous, It seems to me that it is not so much that you take issue with Tzitzernak's comments. No, from what you write, it seems that you would have been fine if she had written '1.5 million + X' if that X referred to

//all those who unnecessarily froze in the early 90s?//

because while you are ready to excuse the murder of protestors on 1 March as

//clashes between police and demonstrators (leading to death) happens all the time (sadly). //

You interpret the deaths in the early 1990s as murder by writing

//how many more armenian deaths [all those who unnecessarily froze in the early 90s] does levon have to have on his bloody hands?//

So it is the identity of the so-called perpetrator for you that matters (i.e. Levon) and not the act itself???

Anonymous said...

no, mayranoush, though actions taken to depopulate armenia or armenians is closer to genocide than a political-clan-oligarch power striggle by the greedy.

i do think we should hold people responsible for their actions. the h-h-sh destroyed armenia and thanks to god that levon is persona non grata in armenia.

i never liked the current rulers, but the threat to armenia of levon returning made serj more popular than ever.

harut said...

See, Mayranoush, no rationality in his/her reply, does not deserve an answer.

Anonymous said...

It is a shame how some people are using the suffering of the people killed 90 years ago, to justify the murders and oppression that happens today!

I am sorry, but for at this very moment the 10 people (8 demonstrators + 2 policemen, they are all victims) murdered by a dictatorship today are at least as important as 1.5 million murdered 90 years ago.


And it's an irony that those very people who condemned Hrant Dink's murder are today backing up politically motivated arrests and killings.